Digital Parish: From TikTok to Discord with Bethany Peerbolte

Ryan Dunn [00:00:00]:
Welcome back to pastoring in the digital parish, your resource and point of connection for building your digital ministry toolkit and bringing your congregation into the digital age. Hope you're doing well. My name is Ryan Dunn. And in this session, we'll get to know the Reverend Bethany Peerbolte and hear how it started and how it's going in her online ministry, which is called Our Tapestry. I love these episodes where we hear the actual stories of digital ministries in development and the practical ideas that they provide for our own online context. So with Bethany, we'll talk about confronting manipulative christian content online to launching an inclusive and digital faith community. She shares the viral moments and the challenges that she's faced, including the Christian trolls as she's carved out a path for meaningful digital ministry. If this kind of content is helpful or valuable, then let it be known to the world.

Ryan Dunn [00:00:59]:
How you can do that is by leaving a rating and or review on your podcast listening platform of choice. That would be super, super helpful. It helps new people find the podcast. It also helps us connect with other digital ministry practitioners who could provide some valuable insights as guests on this podcast. So many thanks for doing that. Our guest slash adjunct professor for this session is again, the Reverend Bethany Pierbult. Bethany is a pastor in the Presbyterian Church USA. She currently runs the all online expression of church known as our tapestry, which is a plant of the Denver Presbytery.

Ryan Dunn [00:01:38]:
She seeks to support people in theological deserts and give everyone access to pastoral care, faith formation, and loving community. So let's hear how all that started and how it's going today on pastoring in the digital parish. Reverend Bethany, thank you so much for joining us. How goes it with your soul today?

Bethany Peerbolte [00:02:04]:
Soul's pretty good today. My basketball team won March Madness. So, I mean, the first round.

Ryan Dunn [00:02:11]:
Oh, I'm like, later. Are you speaking prophecy here? This is We're gonna win all of it. Interesting.

Bethany Peerbolte [00:02:17]:
So yeah. Just, the sun's out here in Denver, and it's been a a good week. So, been loving life recently.

Ryan Dunn [00:02:26]:
Dunn. Well, we wanna get the story of our tapestry and how it started and how it's going in digital ministry for you these days. So let's go back to the beginning. What inspired our ministry, and what was it that just made you decide, like, this is the forum in which I wanna do ministry?

Bethany Peerbolte [00:02:44]:
Yeah. The spirit decided that for me. Uh-huh. I wish you could those.

Ryan Dunn [00:02:51]:
Yeah. Oh, holy spirit said, so this is what I have to do.

Bethany Peerbolte [00:02:54]:
Like, Dunn it was happening. No. I got pushed off the deep end. During COVID, was doing youth ministry in a church in Michigan, and was reaching out to families. And, like, end of summer of 2020, I started, getting parents asking, like, well, my kids are talking a lot more about hell online, a kid would ask me, like, what what does it mean to be a lukewarm Christian? And I was like, that's really not a Presbyterian, like, concept. Like, where are you hearing this? Normally, I'd be like, oh, they went to, you know, some of the big box churches and, you know, for their youth group, but I knew they weren't doing that because there was COVID.

Ryan Dunn [00:03:33]:
Yeah.

Bethany Peerbolte [00:03:33]:
So found out it was TikTok, that they had heard these messages. And I had been on TikTok for a while, so, like, I wasn't unaware of of the platform, but I had never come across this, like, Christian content, which is really the algorithm being like, oh, she introduced she interacts with, like, queer stuff, so she probably doesn't want the Christian Dunn. Mhmm. Because the algorithm is real real smart. And so I went looking for it, found a lot of really abysmal stuff, really emotionally manipulative, very behavioral focus, very focused on hell and the afterlife. And so I was like, okay. Well, if this is what my kids are running across, I have an opportunity to show them, like, how I engage with these people and sort of what my response would be. So I asked them to start sending me, videos that I could duet or respond to or whatever.

Bethany Peerbolte [00:04:31]:
And in that process of making content sort of branched out and started making, you know, funny lip syncs and, like, the different things that were happening, and it caught on real quickly. A lot of people still shocked about a female pastor. Mhmm. I would have a a transgender a stole on or talk about a Black Lives Matter issue. And people were like, you're gonna get fired from your church. Dunn I'm like, well, my denomination has already said all of this stuff. So, no, I'm not gonna get fired. And people are just, like, really interested in the fact that that kind that brand, that branch of Christianity United, and it it snowballed and became, like a thing.

Bethany Peerbolte [00:05:17]:
And I had people that were watching my videos every day. It was just like, what is going on?

Ryan Dunn [00:05:23]:
Was there one particular video that really Dunn blew up?

Bethany Peerbolte [00:05:28]:
The first video that really blew up was me in a transgender stole, and the sound that was going viral was this girl singing, like, I know. I know. I know. I know. The joke being, like, I'm aware. I told like, I do this on purpose kinda thing. And so the wording on the screen was like, hey, pastor. Did you know that those are the colors of the transgender pride flag? And then it was just just me like, yeah, I know, like I'm doing this on purpose.

Bethany Peerbolte [00:05:52]:
I wear this stole to, because it is part of my yoke, part of my leadership to lead people in the church who are also transgender. And people are just, like, wait a second. Like, what? And that debate has even gone even deeper since that moment. Like, that wasn't really the headline that it is now. And so people, like, ask questions. Like, well, you know, can the church support transgender people? I'm like, yeah. Page 1 of Genesis supports transgender people. Like, this is, this shouldn't be a debate, and I I don't know why it's a bay debate, but I realize there is.

Bethany Peerbolte [00:06:31]:
And so let's talk about it. I would go live and, like, would get lots of people who are coming in on a regular basis, and chatting and kind of, like, creating that community, checking in on each other, asking for prayers, and then coming back and telling us what was going on. I'd also get the haters. Right? So I Yeah. Especially if I wore my collar, I would get a lot of, people coming in and telling me, like, I'm not a Christian Dunn I can't be a pastor. The Christian trolls

Ryan Dunn [00:07:10]:
Yeah.

Bethany Peerbolte [00:07:11]:
Are a whole another level. They are actively denying, my personhood, my my profession. You know, it's very different. And so I'd get both of those things. And we'd have really great conversations, and I would, you know, keep my pastoral kind of stance while I was online, and then I'd get offline. I'd be like, oh, these people.

Ryan Dunn [00:07:35]:
You know? Right. But

Bethany Peerbolte [00:07:37]:
it really fueled the whole idea of, like, there is a certain voice in Christianity that is super loud, and it is not the progressive voice. And so if I can get out there and engage and give another option to interact with these other voices, maybe win a little bit of our reputation back, that would be a really lovely, mission to have.

Ryan Dunn [00:08:03]:
So was that really the idea behind our tapestry was to Dunn provide this, counter theological voice?

Bethany Peerbolte [00:08:13]:
That's where it started. I, you know, I was doing this as a hobby because I had a full time on-site church position.

Ryan Dunn [00:08:21]:
Was this your youth pastoring?

Bethany Peerbolte [00:08:23]:
Yeah. Yeah. Okay.

Ryan Dunn [00:08:24]:
I was

Bethany Peerbolte [00:08:24]:
a Presbyterian in Birmingham. Yeah. In Michigan. And it was really just online, okay. Let me just, like, be part of the conversation. But then as I went live and more of these people came in on a regular basis Dunn we were talking about, you know, similar books and realizing they bought the book Dunn they're reading the book. Dunn, like, okay. Well, let's do a book study together on Zoom so that we can, you know, kind of go through this, as a as a community.

Bethany Peerbolte [00:08:51]:
And then I had one time that someone came in and admit it, and they was someone who had come in a couple times. Like, I recognized their their username, and they came in and they were online, hey. I had a really bad day, and I think this is this is the last day for me to be alive. And to be a pastor was like, I don't know where you are. I don't know what the resources are around you. I can't hug you. I like, all I can do is send you affirming words and, like, support. And people in the comment section were, like, also doing the same thing, being like, you know, where are you? Oh, I'm, you know, a couple cities over.

Bethany Peerbolte [00:09:27]:
Let's wait for coffee this weekend. Like, trying to, like, engage. That night was, like, awful for me being, like, what should I have done? What could I have done? Woke up the next morning and went to that person's account, and they had posted a new video. And I was like, cool. They made it through the night. So I went in the comment section on that video and was like, so proud of you. Glad you're still here. And there were other people from that live who had done the same thing that morning.

Bethany Peerbolte [00:09:55]:
They went to their account. They went to their comments section. They said, we're proud of you. And that was the moment that I was like, this is more than just content making. This is there's community happening. Like, there are strangers on the Internet who care about these other strangers on the Internet that they may or may not ever see again, but there's love and caring and support happening. And I was like, okay. I gotta figure out, like, how do I make that space happen again? Like, what what was that? You know, the book study turned into a weekly bible study gathering.

Bethany Peerbolte [00:10:30]:
We started with a couple people on, like, a text chain, and then when we got too big, we're like, okay. I guess we gotta flip over to Discord so we don't have this, like, massive group text going on. It's really just kind of been you know, as I meet people individually, then we do pastoral care Ryan, people are getting married Dunn they wanna talk about talk have me talk with their parents so that their parents can come to their wedding and and feel like god is actually affirming that. Like, it just kind of is me making myself available to people in what I call theological deserts. They don't have access to any other Christian theology angle. And they're like, I would love to have a pastor that could walk me through a faith journey that isn't toxic. I would love to have a pastor that could help me unpack this religious trauma. And so I was like, okay, I can't be there everywhere physically, but I can be everywhere, like, in person online.

Bethany Peerbolte [00:11:29]:
So let me figure out how I can be there for you. And that's just kind of every 6 months that turns into something different. And, you know, some of the stuff stays and some of it goes, and it's been a really beautiful ministry to watch progress.

Ryan Dunn [00:11:44]:
In our tradition, we toss around this term, pathway of discipleship or journey of discipleship. I'm sure that you'd have, like, similar phraseology. And so it sounds like yours kind of begins with, TikTok in this case, and especially sounds like the TikTok live events, and then moves from that to maybe an invitation to the online course of study, the bible study, and then and then to maybe discord from there. Is that a fair assessment?

Bethany Peerbolte [00:12:15]:
In pastoral Ryan on 1, you know, talking with people who are thinking about baptism or, a lot of people who have been baptized, and that's, like, a thing that they've never been able to reconcile because it wasn't their choice. You know, I love infant baptism. Right? Like but for some people, later on in life, with the way that that community treated them when they actually knew who they were as an adult, now they're like, well, now I have this, like, stain on me of baptism. Online, they baptized me in their tradition. And so to unpack that and say, there are parts of this that you can really embrace and love, and you can let go of the other parts. You don't have to take this. Most people know the deconstruction world.

Ryan Dunn [00:13:00]:
Mhmm. I

Bethany Peerbolte [00:13:01]:
use the word declutter because I feel like that's you know, decluttering is a lifelong thing.

Ryan Dunn [00:13:08]:
Yeah. I like that.

Bethany Peerbolte [00:13:09]:
And it's never, you know, Dunn ending. Dunn there's really great things that people have gotten from their church families, and there's some really abusive toxic things that they've gotten from their church families and traditions. So if we can declutter some of that so that you can live faith in a with all the stuff that was great, Awesome. Some people, like, part of my work is helping them get on the off ramp of Christianity. It can be like this is the word God is so ingrained in all these terrible things. I don't ever want you to believe in a God. Like, the divine, a spirit, but, like, that word god has got to go. Because for some people, it's just so damaged that it's never gonna be something that is as comforting and loving as it should be in their lives.

Ryan Dunn [00:14:00]:
Yeah. You brought up baptism, and we wanna talk about Dunn how things started and then how things are going these days. I feel like when it comes to certain, well, sacraments or rights within the church, like, this is one of these learning experiences. Like we come up against like, Oh, now we need to figure out how we're going to do communion or how we're going to do baptism. So what does does baptism look like in your practice of digital ministry? Really a

Bethany Peerbolte [00:14:28]:
thing that's been rolling around in my head, like, in the last 2 months. Like, as I'm talking to this person, like, how am I going to do this if they say yes? I want to be baptized. Like, okay. We'd love to have that problem. Right? I think, you know, I talk a lot about the abandonment of these siblings that the church has done by focusing so much on on-site physical locations. And I didn't want it to be my fight, but I think it is my fight to have to move that church into, like, we need to be able to be there for people that we can never physically be there Ryan. And one of the cool things about our sacraments and the genius of Jesus choosing these sacraments is there's water everywhere. There's bread everywhere.

Bethany Peerbolte [00:15:14]:
There's some kind of juice everywhere. Like, everywhere in the world, they this is part of every culture. And so it's not that it's we're asking to introduce something foreign. We just have to figure out how to make that, like, that spiritual moment or whatever we kinda consider it trans substantiation, consubstantiation, all those big words that we've Dunn. Now it's just kinda online, do we believe that the spirit like, if I give a blessing right here, can send that blessing to wherever it is that this other person is? I

Ryan Dunn [00:15:48]:
can't Sorry. It's out of the 50 mile radius. Your power has diminished.

Bethany Peerbolte [00:15:52]:
Right. Exactly. So, I mean, communion, I think a lot of churches figured out pretty quickly, during COVID that, you know, a bite and a sip, whatever it is, go for it. Baptism, I think, is a little bit more complicated because we do wanna have, you know, the that moment of the water being touched and blessed and moved around. But, you know, if it's a thing that, like, someone is Dunn, you know, in Trinidad and Tobago, like, I have someone from there who joins our bible studies. So if they wanna get baptized, am I gonna go there? Probably not. But I think there should be some kind of theological way that we can make that make sense. And those are the questions that I think digital ministry is really lifting up and putting at a forefront for the church to say, wait, but do you actually believe you have to lay on hands for this thing, for this commissioning to work? And most people are gonna say, well, no, it's not it's not about my hand touching someone.

Bethany Peerbolte [00:17:01]:
Like, that's not magical.

Ryan Dunn [00:17:02]:
Yeah.

Bethany Peerbolte [00:17:02]:
And so it's online, so then what what is it? What is the thing? Where how does that miracle of commissioning happening? Well, it's the digital, like, okay. So then, you know, the spirit can go. You know, like Mhmm. We had to talk about that, because it's gonna make a difference for digital ministry real quick. But the physical church might not or the in like, on-site church might not have to ask those questions for a long time.

Ryan Dunn [00:17:27]:
Yeah.

Bethany Peerbolte [00:17:27]:
But we get to say to them, let's talk about it now.

Ryan Dunn [00:17:30]:
Okay. Alright. And so you're still processing through what that might look online?

Bethany Peerbolte [00:17:34]:
Oh, absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. And polity I mean, Presbyterians, we love our polity. You know? Who gets the per capita for the person that's living in Florida? Is it Oh, yeah. You know, the Denver press secretary? Like, there are some really big questions, and then it comes down to, well, why doesn't why don't churches in your area attract this person so that they pay per capita to you? Like, it's it's some pretty good questions that people come up with, and they get a little a little peeved some time with the answer. You know? Like Yeah. To have to actually look at, you know, well, why does, you know, Denver Presbyterian get credit for this? You know, just because the leader lives there, it's like, well, our system is very leader centric.

Bethany Peerbolte [00:18:18]:
If you don't like it, maybe we need to talk about why our system is so leader centric.

Ryan Dunn [00:18:24]:
Yeah. Yeah. Alright.

Bethany Peerbolte [00:18:25]:
I don't wanna talk about that.

Ryan Dunn [00:18:27]:
We're getting all kinds of medals of Nazia. Yeah. Well, let's talk about, like, what the flow of practice looks like for you. Can you take us through a typical week in the life of our tapestry?

Bethany Peerbolte [00:18:43]:
Yeah. Digital is a thing.

Ryan Dunn [00:18:45]:
You're right.

Bethany Peerbolte [00:18:47]:
Tuesday nights is our our big, like, gathering time. I have a West Coast, bible study and the East Coast bible study, which being in mountain time is lovely because it means I don't have to stay up all night to reach out to the people on the West Coast. You know, I I have a, pastoral care appointments, probably 1 or 2 a week that people will sign up for to meet on Zoom and to chat. We have a Discord where, you know, anybody at any time it's like a chat room. Anybody can go in and put something in there. Hey. I I, you know, have this song. I've played around a little bit with devotionals.

Bethany Peerbolte [00:19:25]:
I mean, I think the big switch for me in digital ministry is that the feedback loop is a little, like, holy. Like, not not holy, but, there's no there's

Ryan Dunn [00:19:36]:
no holes in it? Is that what you mean? Okay.

Bethany Peerbolte [00:19:38]:
I put something out there. I'm like, did anybody?

Ryan Dunn [00:19:42]:
Oh, gotcha. Alright. Yeah. There's no receiving line at the end of the service to be like, good message.

Bethany Peerbolte [00:19:46]:
Online, hey. I really like that thing, you know, that article you wrote. Like, sometimes that doesn't happen. But, you know, that Discord is open 247. And because we do have people on either coast, someone on the East Coast who's having a middle of the night kind of crisis, someone on the West Coast is still up and so can still have that conversation and be available with them. So that's a really cool part of, like, that kind of space. I'm making content, so, you know, I make it a habit to scroll for at least an hour. It's probably a lot more than that.

Bethany Peerbolte [00:20:21]:
But, like, intentionally scrolling for an hour to be like, okay. What things am I seeing happen over and over again so that that's obviously the the format that's going viral right now that people are stopping and listening to? What kind of stories have happened in my life that I need to tell people about? You know, like, there's there was Dunn week I had, like, 4 or 5 people call me up and or text me to talk about someone who had, like, severely disrespected them in a way that was really off putting. And I was like, that's so interesting that this is happening multiple times. So I made a post about it Dunn, like, you know, Jesus talking about turning the other cheek, and what does that actually mean? Are we supposed to be doormats for people that just keep, you know I don't want to say a bad word. Crapping on? Or are we, are we supposed to, like, have some sort of accountability, like to make people realize that we are humans and we deserve a level of respect? And so those kinds of things just kind of being open to what's happening in people's lives. Working in coffee shops has been really helpful. Like, I've heard people be like, oh, did you hear this story? And I hear that 2 or 3 times. I'm like, okay.

Bethany Peerbolte [00:21:37]:
I better look up at the story. Mhmm.

Ryan Dunn [00:21:39]:
Okay.

Bethany Peerbolte [00:21:40]:
Story, and then I realized, like, oh, there's a really great, you know, pastoral response to what's happening in the news or with this person and, you know, Kate Middleton. I'm right now, I'm

Ryan Dunn [00:21:51]:
trying to I'm sorry. How how am I doing? Were you reading my thoughts? I was

Bethany Peerbolte [00:21:55]:
turning over, like I'm so engrossed.

Ryan Dunn [00:21:57]:
Can we make towards Kate Middleton?

Bethany Peerbolte [00:21:59]:
I I think I'm starting to, like I'm starting to get into my, like, this is what I think is the, like, pastoral Christian kind of, like, thing about Cape Middleton that we need to learn. But, yeah, staying staying up to date on those. I just had a video go viral, Monday, where I was talking about, Easter eggs and how they're actually, aborted chickens that are dressed in drag for children. And everyone's just, like, oh my what? Like, no. And that one, I actually pissed off both sides because progressives are, like, well, it's actually not an aborted chicken. I'm, like, it's not a science lesson. I'm trying to make a point here. So trying to stay, like, current with what's happening in the world, what is a Christian response, how can we, you know, either look at this in a lighthearted way or really do a deep dive, teach them on about it.

Bethany Peerbolte [00:22:53]:
So it's a lot of, like, that kind of content creation and listening to what's going on.

Ryan Dunn [00:23:00]:
How are you encouraging people to interact with one another on Discord?

Bethany Peerbolte [00:23:06]:
You know, that one comes pretty pretty easily. I mean, we have a couple different channels that are name different things. So, like, I have one that's, like, memes that will help. So if someone comes across a meme that's helpful, like they know that that's a place where they can share it. You know, you share it on Facebook, you share it in the discord. We'll have one for whatever the bible study kinda series is so that that can continue if someone brings up. I think this last week, someone brought up, a playlist that they had. And so I said, hey.

Bethany Peerbolte [00:23:37]:
Will you post that into the Discord? And so people have been listening to the songs and suggesting other songs to go onto that playlist. So it really is, you know, just online when you have what makes you text up a friend? What makes you, you know, call someone? It really is just kind of this is a place where we get to be in community, and we're here to laugh and cry with one another Dunn it just kind of becomes part of people's rhythms.

Ryan Dunn [00:24:05]:
Okay. Well, we've named dropped a few pieces of technology that it sounds like are central to your practice of ministry. Discord, obviously being 1, TikTok being Dunn, or are you doing you're doing, assume reels alongside those TikToks or Yeah.

Bethany Peerbolte [00:24:21]:
The TikToks go into Instagram reel and onto, YouTube shorts. You know, Zoom. We're actually trying to make the switch over to the Discord has a similar kind of structure as Zoom that you can use. And I think we're getting to the point where enough of our people know Discord and that we can introduce, like, now we can really just, like, use it for all of our things.

Ryan Dunn [00:24:46]:
Mhmm. Yeah.

Bethany Peerbolte [00:24:48]:
So Zoom kinda happened because it was COVID, and everyone knew what Zoom was and how to get in and whatnot. And now I think we're getting to the point where, like, why do we have 2 different platforms when this platform does the same thing? So yes. I I don't like to give people another app to open. Like Yeah. Want you to I wanna be where you're already opening your phone. So Discord was one of those things that was like, I think I need to give you another app. But then once they're on it, they're like, oh, okay. I get this.

Ryan Dunn [00:25:22]:
Are there any other digital tools that you're finding are really necessary for your practice Dunn ministry?

Bethany Peerbolte [00:25:27]:
I'm I'm loving Opus. It's an AI. You put in, like, a hour conversation or an hour video, and AI will clip it up for you in little pieces. It's terrifying and life saving at the same time.

Ryan Dunn [00:25:46]:
Terrifying. How so?

Bethany Peerbolte [00:25:48]:
Terrifying that it's so good at finding Oh, okay. Moments. It's like, how do you know that that was a really profound thing that I just said? Like, you're AI. Yeah. So a little bit and it'll be, online, and here's here's what the title of the video should be, and here's the description of the video. And I'm just, like, you're so much better at this than I am, and you did it in, like, 30 minutes. So, yeah, terrifying, but also, saves a lot of time, a lot of energy. I don't know.

Bethany Peerbolte [00:26:21]:
I mean, like, my iPhone and I are very much, you know, a big integral kind of thing, like, as hardware goes. I just saw a really great concept of, like, millennials understand when some when a task is a a little, Internet problem, so you get out your phone and you go on the little Internet or big Internet problem. Like, I gotta get on my computer Dunn I gotta, like, go on my laptop. And I was like, oh, that is totally a concept. So I've been trying to think about what that is for, like, our ministry. Like, a lot of the ministry is other than the bible studies, is a small Internet. It's on your phone. It's scrolling.

Bethany Peerbolte [00:26:59]:
It's Discord chatting, whatever. But, like, oh, what what part of ministry should I be saying is, like, this is a big Internet thing. This is something I need to have on a screen with, you know, all this stuff. So those kind of concepts just kinda come up Dunn I go, well, what does that mean for the church? What does that mean for a ministry setting, which is just, like, the best blessing I could ever ask for to be the one that gets to sit around and think those things.

Ryan Dunn [00:27:28]:
Yeah. It's Dunn, isn't it? Yeah. With your bible studies, are they topical? Or

Bethany Peerbolte [00:27:34]:
We've messed around with a couple different things. We've done one somewhere, like, we realized we've just, like, talked about God's story a lot. So, like, let's tell our stories. So one person will take a week, and they'll tell their story, their life, and we get to, like, learn more about them. We did the profits. We went through, like, the profits 1 by 1. And, I think we got through about, I don't know, 8 weeks of those. We got real sick of that because it's a lot of the same stuff.

Bethany Peerbolte [00:28:04]:
Right? It's a lot of

Ryan Dunn [00:28:04]:
the same stuff. Yeah. We're supposed to do justice. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Be good to people. Alright.

Bethany Peerbolte [00:28:10]:
Oh, yeah. People get it wrong, and then we get it right, and then we get it wrong again. And yeah. We did one about, like, fear. You know, what is, like, sacred fear? And Mhmm. Right now, we're kind of doing, we did a couple of the Lent of Liberation, from the book Lent for Liberation, and it just connects, American slavery with, some, like, concepts from Lent. So we did a couple of those. Again, they're, like, very heavy.

Bethany Peerbolte [00:28:40]:
And most of my people are doing, like, social justice work and working on themselves just in general because they're pretty progressive millennial and Gen z's. So now we're I've just kind of been reading the lectionary throughout the week and been like, okay. What do what do we need to talk about? And those have been amazingly fruitful to just be like, here's something that I found interesting. What do you guys think? And just let them like, go about. I think they're they're feeling confident enough in their ability to do some exegesis, you know, as lay people. Whereas before they come out of these traditions that are, like, if you don't know the right interpretation, then you're not, like, good enough. Like, that's not Dunn so for a long time, and and usually when it's new people in, it's like, well, what does this mean, Ralph, Bethany? Or, like, what is this saying? What am I supposed to know? I Dunn like, I don't know. What do you think? And that's really off putting for a lot of people because they're like, no.

Ryan Dunn [00:29:40]:
And just tell me.

Bethany Peerbolte [00:29:41]:
I I need you to tell me what this is. And I'm like, I don't know. And I have definitely lost people who have come in, and I've been like, I'm not gonna tell you the answer to that. And they get so frustrated, and it's just like, I don't have answers. Like, you can help me, like, come up with something that makes sense for you and us. But that being raised in that place where you are there to memorize what the leader says is there, is a very hard thing for for some people to transition out of. And it just feels very unsafe.

Ryan Dunn [00:30:18]:
How do you in a context like that, how do you guard against somebody else than trying to fill that role of being the the answer person?

Bethany Peerbolte [00:30:28]:
The answer person? Yeah. I mean, in all the spaces we have right now, I at least have, like, access to them. I mean, I guess some people could be, like, talking, you know, 1 on 1 and and be that. But when we come together, like, we are very intentional about you if you have something that you wanna say, like, we're gonna give you the space and time to say it. And the expectation of I, you know, someone might push back on that. Someone might go, that's not exactly what I'm thinking about this. And to kind of honor that spectrum, when we do get into some weeds of, like, well, yeah, this has got some baggage with it. I'll present the spectrum and I'll say, okay, there are Christians over here that are gonna interpret this like this.

Bethany Peerbolte [00:31:20]:
They get it from a, b, c, and d. This is the tradition around it. And then there are Christians who are over here who are gonna say, you know, this completely other thing, and this is the scriptures that they wrap around it. And I then I just online, here's the whole spectrum. You're welcome. And then make everyone else kinda, like, have to sit with that for a while. I think it's very refreshing for the people who have been in the this is what it is. I grew up in that.

Bethany Peerbolte [00:31:47]:
I was in Missouri Synod Lutheran as a kid. So I was given a catechism with questions and the answers, and I was supposed to memorize the answers. So I get it. But that's also where I fell in love with pushing back on the the answers. And so for the people who have been in those spaces, it is relieving for many of them to go like, wait. So my inkling that when Jesus said everyone, he meant everyone is okay? Mhmm. Yep. It's kinda like affirming and empowering the way the spirit has already been talking through them and in their hearts to say, you have a really good sense of what the spirit is saying.

Bethany Peerbolte [00:32:30]:
Like, listen to what your heart is saying. Like, you have the law written in your heart. What does it say? And when you feel icky and cringey because someone else said something that doesn't really match, that was the spirit inside of you going, that's not exactly what I meant. And to affirm that has has been a lot of the work that I do with them.

Ryan Dunn [00:32:54]:
Okay. Well, here we are in 2024. As you look back to the early days of 2020, 2021, what's something that, you kinda wish that you'd put into practice then that might have made life easier today?

Bethany Peerbolte [00:33:10]:
I wish I would have stayed committed to finding and developing the space for minors for for youth.

Ryan Dunn [00:33:19]:
Mhmm.

Bethany Peerbolte [00:33:20]:
Because I was in youth group, that was something that I originally was very concerned about. How do I make a safe Internet space for them to come into and for me to invite outside people into where I know who they are, I know how things are gonna interact, Like, can I can't control a lot of that on the Internet? And it fell off because I met with a couple developers that were just like, you're the only one who's gonna want a space that's, like, hard to get into. And I'm like, well but I want it to be hard because I want to deter anybody who's gonna use that space in a negative way to just not get in. And I just got really, like, thrown off of that a lot. Honestly, I think virtual reality metaverse is the best place that's doing it, and it's those the equipment is so expensive that it's just not accessible right now. Yeah. But, yeah. Because I do miss like, I do interact with minors on, like, social media places.

Bethany Peerbolte [00:34:25]:
But when they try to individually message me, I have to say, I'm either gonna have to bring another adult into this conversation, which then it sometimes just completely destroys. They're like, no. I don't want to. I only trust you kinda thing.

Ryan Dunn [00:34:40]:
Mhmm.

Bethany Peerbolte [00:34:41]:
So that's something that I do I still feel bad that I don't have a really great way. And some people that do do it are like, well, they're just Dunn, like, be someone who accepts the risks, and I haven't gotten there yet. Like, where I

Ryan Dunn [00:34:54]:
Okay.

Bethany Peerbolte [00:34:55]:
I just can't accept the risks yet.

Ryan Dunn [00:34:57]:
Yeah. Well, it's been ingrained in yeah. Been ingrained in a in a lot of our, training is I I came up through youth ministry as Dunn, and it's online

Bethany Peerbolte [00:35:08]:
Yeah. Yeah.

Ryan Dunn [00:35:09]:
It's it's hammered in. Or at least it was for a time, you know?

Bethany Peerbolte [00:35:12]:
Yeah.

Ryan Dunn [00:35:15]:
Well, how do you kinda measure the growth or the impact of your ministry? Well, you know, for a lot of us in the olden days, we would say, well, we've got 700 people in worship on Sunday. What what does the metric look like now?

Bethany Peerbolte [00:35:32]:
Yeah. The metrics are so interesting. So I did a great, retreat with, the Denver new worshiping communities, and we talked about, like, what is the impact? And we started with, like, what is the impact that we wanted to have as far as if we didn't exist anymore? What would the world miss? So that was really helpful to start there and then go, okay. How do we know that that is happening? Well, okay. These four things. How do you measure those four things? So I try to keep track of things online like hate comments. People who are coming in and pushing back on what I'm saying mean that I'm engaging with the conversations and the topics that need to have some back and forth on it. If I'm not getting anybody who's upset with what I'm saying, probably not saying enough, or I'm not getting getting my voice out there far enough for them to then engage back with me.

Bethany Peerbolte [00:36:37]:
Because then those follow-up videos or comments section, online, a lot most of the ministry happens in the comment section, like, with outside people. Like, they come in and they go this and I go that Dunn we, you know, go back and forth, or other people go back and forth. And so that is a sign for me that people are engaging in a way that they are being challenged and or being comforted. So they're either coming in and saying, you know, well, my pastor said this other thing. I was like, well, no. It doesn't necessarily. And they're like, oh, thank goodness. You know? Or they're coming in and saying, well, it's this other way.

Bethany Peerbolte [00:37:11]:
And I'm going, well, does it have to be that other way? And they're like, yes. It has to be that other way. You know? And then we have a little bit of a challenged conversation. So comments are a really great metric for me to look at. You know, followers, I when TikTok did their, like, bot purge, it was, like, broke my heart because I did lose, like, 20,000 followers. And I was like, oh, I was, you know, not when I see that when I see that 2 in the 200,000 followers, online, a Dunn, like, 85,000 followers, but it used to be a 3. Oh. That it's like, oh, breaks my heart.

Bethany Peerbolte [00:37:46]:
But that's how those social medias are set up. So I've learned, like, followers don't mean anything. Like, it could be a bot. It could be 8 people or Dunn person who has 8 different accounts. That's not the thing. The thing that I like to keep track of are new people. So new people who follow who are like you know, I'm like, oh, an hour ago, they weren't sure if god loved them. I'll keep track online, if I see someone go in and they, online, like a bunch of videos, like, people will go in and then go to your profile, and they'll kind of scroll through all of your stuff and watch a lot of your latest stuff.

Bethany Peerbolte [00:38:21]:
And they'll like it and then scroll and online. And so when you see that, the same person liking a bunch of different videos, it means that that person has just found you and is just interacting with this message right now. I get a fair amount of people who reach out and go, like, thank you so much or, you know, your content's underrated or how how can I send this to my mom? You know, those kinds of comments show that they're making an impact, at least, like, on the outside world kind of thing. On the inside, it's the people who, like, when they start exchanging phone numbers with each other, like this in person meeting that's gonna happen this August when people are online, you know, hey. I'm going on a road trip. And they're like, hey. Let's all meet up in Denver. You know? Like, wait.

Bethany Peerbolte [00:39:10]:
What? Like, okay. There's, like, community happening. You know, we've got some people who are who are trans, who are in Florida, and there's a lot of people who reach out to me and go, are they okay? Do you mean to do something? Like, how's that going? Like, in so I go, like, hey. You know, reach out to them. I've they said that they're fine, but letting people know that you're concerned about them is great.

Ryan Dunn [00:39:31]:
Yeah.

Bethany Peerbolte [00:39:34]:
Pride is coming, so we're gonna create some stuff that people can wear. We came up with a tagline that, like, queer is Dunn. And so we're gonna create some shirts that people can wear to their prides and give out. I have these little, get out of health free cards, that I I hand out or leave places. So getting DMs from that and knowing that those cards are going out. So it's it's less about, like, how much money is coming in, how many people are are in Zoom, how many emails are going out. It's I like the ones that the numbers of, like, how many conversations have I had in a comment section that went back and forth 2 or 3 times at Volley back 2 or 3 times. How many times have I heard of someone meeting up with someone else, you know, either on their own Zoom or a phone call, you know, things that are not my initiation.

Bethany Peerbolte [00:40:28]:
Online, other people are reaching out and creating relationship beyond me going online, here's this person, here's this person you guys should meet. But they're doing it naturally is a really important thing for me.

Ryan Dunn [00:40:46]:
Dunn is that something that you're able to bring back to the Presbyterian via?

Bethany Peerbolte [00:40:51]:
Denver is lovely. Yes. Denver. Absolutely. I mean, I do give them, you know, like, I can go into, TikTok and tell them, like, I've got 40% of followers are 18 to 24 female. You know, I can give them those analytics, but they're very conscious about the way that metrics, have locked us into a certain kind of ministry. Dunn, I mean, they've got, like, 14 different new worshiping communities here. So they're very much in that innovative space and mindset, which is another reason why I was like, this is where I need to go.

Bethany Peerbolte [00:41:32]:
The larger denomination for us through PCUSA, we might have some work to do to accept those numbers. You know, even even though the numbers of newer shipping communities memberships are beautiful numbers Dunn they are growing, and they say, like, that's the only number that's growing is newer shipping community membership. It's still a membership number. Mhmm.

Ryan Dunn [00:41:55]:
You know? It's

Bethany Peerbolte [00:41:56]:
still the same thing. And sometimes I wonder if I fit better into, like, mission coworker, online, we call our missionary mission coworkers. Yeah. Because the questions we ask them are much more story and impact related than they are number of baptisms, number of communions, number Mhmm. You know? And so there's some disconnect between what we expect from our mission coworkers and what we expect from our charter churches.

Ryan Dunn [00:42:29]:
Okay. Oh, final question for you. I'm I'm pulling this one out here. So if you don't have an answer for it, it's fine. But, let's say the TikTok band goes through. How does that impact your practice of ministry?

Bethany Peerbolte [00:42:44]:
That's, when that when the house voted on it, I had, like, 10 texts within, like, 30 minutes.

Ryan Dunn [00:42:50]:
Like, what are you gonna do?

Bethany Peerbolte [00:42:51]:
I was like, well, first of all, we've done this every year for the last 4 years. So I am desensitized to it. I'll freak out when I actually see it happening. I mean, there's always Instagram. There's always Facebook, YouTube. There's always another platform. So as far as that's concerned, you know, it's just getting people to go over to the other platforms. And I do, every once in a while, remind people that I have these other places where they can find me.

Bethany Peerbolte [00:43:21]:
Personally, I I don't think it can go through. My my personal kind of dialogue around it is TikTok is a place where I get to hear about what's happening in Gaza from mothers who have children in Gaza Mhmm. And who are with their children in Gaza. I get to hear about someone who is in a wheelchair and trying to get around Denver from someone who's in a wheelchair trying to get around Denver. So I think that scares our government officials that they no longer control the narrative of how I see the other or someone else, I can get directly from them and go, hey, Denver. We say we're this, like, great walkable city, but it's not a very good rollable city. We need to do something about that. I think that is the biggest thing that people are afraid Dunn.

Bethany Peerbolte [00:44:13]:
And this whole idea that someone else owns our information, it would be as so much cheaper for the Chinese to have just asked Facebook just online, can we buy the information from you? Because it's there. You know? Like, it it's not about the information. It's about the way we're able to communicate with one another. And it's the power of of what it is. I have, a course that's gonna come out through Convergent hopefully next month, but I need to actually, like, put the videos together, about, like, how do we teach our kids how to follow people and create a a for you page that will feed their soul? It's not just celebrities and influencers. It's not just the popular kids at school. You know, it's artists. It's poets.

Bethany Peerbolte [00:44:59]:
It's activists. You know? It's these people that you're never gonna be able to meet. I know more about what it's like to be quadriplegic quadriplegic than I would ever know because I watch someone who, like, puts their makeup on every morning, and it's like, I would have never been able to ask these questions. Even if I knew this person personally, I'm not gonna ask these online invasive questions. We get to learn so much about other people's experiences through social media, that if we can be intentional about how we're following other people, it can be a really great space for our kids and for us to be a part of.

Ryan Dunn [00:45:40]:
I look forward to you putting that out.

Bethany Peerbolte [00:45:42]:
So Okay. I'll I'll

Ryan Dunn [00:45:43]:
make it happen. Get those videos done with you.

Bethany Peerbolte [00:45:45]:
Okay. Good. Yeah.

Ryan Dunn [00:45:47]:
I got a 16 year old. He's at the impressionable stage right now. So

Bethany Peerbolte [00:45:52]:
Although, I think Gen z does it. Gen z and alpha do it better than, like, millennials. Like, we weren't parented with any of it. So, like, I feel like my friends and I are worse on our phones because we didn't have our parents being, like, put it away when you're eating.

Ryan Dunn [00:46:05]:
Yes. You're a proper boundaries. Yes. Right.

Bethany Peerbolte [00:46:07]:
Yeah.

Ryan Dunn [00:46:09]:
That's good. Well, Reverend Bethany, thank you so much for joining us, for offering your story, and for doing what you're doing out there in digital space.

Bethany Peerbolte [00:46:17]:
Absolutely. Thanks for giving me a chance to tell the story and let people know that there's options, even if they're in those theological deserts far away from things that there are people that they can still get in contact with to have support Dunn faith community.

Ryan Dunn [00:46:31]:
And for you where is the, entry point or one stop shop, so to speak, of, finding out more things about reverend Bethany Purebell?

Bethany Peerbolte [00:46:44]:
Yeah. It's revbethany on all the platforms, that you can find that in my bio from there goes to the Ministry website, but also artapestry.online is the the ministry. And, yeah, we've got a lot of really good exciting things coming up for June for pride. So I'd love for people to go and get the shirt and let people know that they can get out of hell free.

Ryan Dunn [00:47:08]:
Cool. I'll tell you, those stories are so valuable for informing our own practice of digital ministry. So thanks again to Reverend Bethany Pierbolt for sharing that with us. You can share your own experiences in our Facebook group, which is conveniently called pastoring in the digital parish, bet you never would have guessed. If you wanna hear more episodes like this one, how it started and how it's going with Crossfire Faith Dunn gaming would be a good follow-up. Also, we got into how it started and how it's going in the episode called engaging the digital parish. That's with reverend Jevon Caldwell Gross. That would be a home run listen, and that's my start of the baseball season drop right there.

Ryan Dunn [00:47:50]:
You're welcome. Actually, thank you again. Thank you so much for joining this journey with me. It's so rewarding for me to be able to have these conversations, to learn with these individuals Dunn help support both their ministries Dunn hopefully yours as well. If there's something that I can do for you, reach out. Past or I'm sorry. [email protected] is a handy email address to send stuff to. Again, that's [email protected].

Ryan Dunn [00:48:20]:
We're drawn to a close of season number 8. It's possible that we have just Dunn episode left. So as we start dreaming about a 9th season, again, I encourage you to drop into the Facebook group or to utilize that email address to offer what would be of value for you in the future. Thanks so much. Right now though, I can say I'll chat at you again next week. So peace.